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	<title>Comments on: The Thingifyer</title>
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	<link>http://www.timesquotidian.com/2010/02/13/the-thingifyer/</link>
	<description>...an Infinite Amount of Things to Speak Of</description>
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		<title>By: adam stilwell</title>
		<link>http://www.timesquotidian.com/2010/02/13/the-thingifyer/comment-page-1/#comment-3644</link>
		<dc:creator>adam stilwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 01:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Very radical.  really enjoyed this.  all these great arguments about &#039;No Country&#039; aside (that&#039;s what a good movie&#039;s all about anyway, in my humble opinion) your getting at something here.  with your ideas of emergence in your last piece &#039;Theory of Miracles&#039; and now your words on materialism and &#039;thingafying&#039; I believe you have a fresh and thrilling view on the current state of human existence.  and i really appreciate it.
thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very radical.  really enjoyed this.  all these great arguments about &#8216;No Country&#8217; aside (that&#8217;s what a good movie&#8217;s all about anyway, in my humble opinion) your getting at something here.  with your ideas of emergence in your last piece &#8216;Theory of Miracles&#8217; and now your words on materialism and &#8216;thingafying&#8217; I believe you have a fresh and thrilling view on the current state of human existence.  and i really appreciate it.<br />
thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: john steppling</title>
		<link>http://www.timesquotidian.com/2010/02/13/the-thingifyer/comment-page-1/#comment-3635</link>
		<dc:creator>john steppling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Feb 2010 04:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesquotidian.com/?p=7507#comment-3635</guid>
		<description>Zimmerman is right I think (regarding the debate with lesquery). One has to remember that McCarthy ends the book (and in a truncated way the Cohen brothers do the movie) with a long reflective monologue from the sheriff. The critical point in that near stream of consciousness is that we are all culpable in the destruction -- in the violence {this particularly because the sheriff is a, well, sheriff, and in the work of stopping such violence}. This is a theme McCarthy explores over and over. Also, Chigurh is in no way an avenging angel. He is not about punishment....but is rather a projection of our collective guilt, and ..at least in the book........a figure of unreality.  He is not merely a madman, or psycho.....he is rather the lucid dream of our darkest instincts. 

Its a complex question, tweezing apart the Biblical tropes in McCarthy --- but Zimmerman seems to be suggesting a larger question anyway.  The fatalistic aspect in McCarthy is always tied to our shared existence. In Blood Meridian the national crime of the genocide of native americans is the spectre haunting the entire book. Judge Holden is, in many ways, much like chigurh. We cannot escape, for he is us. Moss is treated as a good man, but one who could not escape the collective crime of filthy lucre and its reified power to dominate our existence. Advanced capital if you will. Moss is not seen as a thief.....for such a reductive notion is almost meaningless in a McCarthy landscape anyway. He is a traveler through the ante chamber of hell ---  one he simply could not escape. His life before the finding of the money was only an extended delaying of his (our) fate.

The sheriff sees this clearly at the end. Resistance on the level of &quot;crime fighting&quot; is futile. Zimmerman approaches this in a fascinating fashion, albeit a bit different than I am suggesting. But the idea that Moss simply wants to be a rich man is rather to miss the bigger points -- and to posit some idea that he is jeapordizing his wife is really to miss the point. This isnt a liberal fable about responsibility. That might float in typical Hollywood film, in fact it does. But it is exactly the deconstructing of such causal reasoning that McCarthy is looking at. McCarthy is the heir to Melville and No Country is maybe his finest book in fact.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zimmerman is right I think (regarding the debate with lesquery). One has to remember that McCarthy ends the book (and in a truncated way the Cohen brothers do the movie) with a long reflective monologue from the sheriff. The critical point in that near stream of consciousness is that we are all culpable in the destruction &#8212; in the violence {this particularly because the sheriff is a, well, sheriff, and in the work of stopping such violence}. This is a theme McCarthy explores over and over. Also, Chigurh is in no way an avenging angel. He is not about punishment&#8230;.but is rather a projection of our collective guilt, and ..at least in the book&#8230;&#8230;..a figure of unreality.  He is not merely a madman, or psycho&#8230;..he is rather the lucid dream of our darkest instincts. </p>
<p>Its a complex question, tweezing apart the Biblical tropes in McCarthy &#8212; but Zimmerman seems to be suggesting a larger question anyway.  The fatalistic aspect in McCarthy is always tied to our shared existence. In Blood Meridian the national crime of the genocide of native americans is the spectre haunting the entire book. Judge Holden is, in many ways, much like chigurh. We cannot escape, for he is us. Moss is treated as a good man, but one who could not escape the collective crime of filthy lucre and its reified power to dominate our existence. Advanced capital if you will. Moss is not seen as a thief&#8230;..for such a reductive notion is almost meaningless in a McCarthy landscape anyway. He is a traveler through the ante chamber of hell &#8212;  one he simply could not escape. His life before the finding of the money was only an extended delaying of his (our) fate.</p>
<p>The sheriff sees this clearly at the end. Resistance on the level of &#8220;crime fighting&#8221; is futile. Zimmerman approaches this in a fascinating fashion, albeit a bit different than I am suggesting. But the idea that Moss simply wants to be a rich man is rather to miss the bigger points &#8212; and to posit some idea that he is jeapordizing his wife is really to miss the point. This isnt a liberal fable about responsibility. That might float in typical Hollywood film, in fact it does. But it is exactly the deconstructing of such causal reasoning that McCarthy is looking at. McCarthy is the heir to Melville and No Country is maybe his finest book in fact.</p>
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		<title>By: rachel j</title>
		<link>http://www.timesquotidian.com/2010/02/13/the-thingifyer/comment-page-1/#comment-3632</link>
		<dc:creator>rachel j</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 19:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesquotidian.com/?p=7507#comment-3632</guid>
		<description>i need to catch up on my movies (!), but still, another wonderfully thought-provoking post that will percolate in my brain for days to come. thanks, Guy!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i need to catch up on my movies (!), but still, another wonderfully thought-provoking post that will percolate in my brain for days to come. thanks, Guy!</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Zimmerman</title>
		<link>http://www.timesquotidian.com/2010/02/13/the-thingifyer/comment-page-1/#comment-3629</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Zimmerman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:43:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesquotidian.com/?p=7507#comment-3629</guid>
		<description>I simply disagree. Llewelyn wouldn’t work nearly so well if he weren’t close-to-but-not-quite a believer. It’s not that he wants the money, it’s that he wants the money AND he wants to retain his humanity to boot (by bringing a dying man water). And later he wants to retain the money AND his dignity as a man who-has-been-wronged. That is what is especially unforgivable. You can’t be an apostate if you weren’t first a believer, or claimed to be, in other words. 
McCarthy did the same thing with The Kid in Blood Meridian and his relationship to the Judge. The Judge, even more than Chiguhr, is explicitly a creature of the Enlightenment, the scientific mentality. And he kills the Kid in the end because in some subtle way the Kid has strayed from the path of unconditional violence that the deity of that world demands.
Having said all that I’m glad the piece kindled a clear and different opinion. That is, of course, partly the point.
Yours, GZ
Yours, GZ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I simply disagree. Llewelyn wouldn’t work nearly so well if he weren’t close-to-but-not-quite a believer. It’s not that he wants the money, it’s that he wants the money AND he wants to retain his humanity to boot (by bringing a dying man water). And later he wants to retain the money AND his dignity as a man who-has-been-wronged. That is what is especially unforgivable. You can’t be an apostate if you weren’t first a believer, or claimed to be, in other words.<br />
McCarthy did the same thing with The Kid in Blood Meridian and his relationship to the Judge. The Judge, even more than Chiguhr, is explicitly a creature of the Enlightenment, the scientific mentality. And he kills the Kid in the end because in some subtle way the Kid has strayed from the path of unconditional violence that the deity of that world demands.<br />
Having said all that I’m glad the piece kindled a clear and different opinion. That is, of course, partly the point.<br />
Yours, GZ<br />
Yours, GZ</p>
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		<title>By: Lesquery B.</title>
		<link>http://www.timesquotidian.com/2010/02/13/the-thingifyer/comment-page-1/#comment-3628</link>
		<dc:creator>Lesquery B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Feb 2010 20:25:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.timesquotidian.com/?p=7507#comment-3628</guid>
		<description>In arguing that somehow Llewelyn Moss is an &quot;apostate in the temple of materialism,&quot;  Zimmerman conveniently elides the fact that Moss steals two million dollars.  Though Moss returns to give the dying man water, his goal throughout the story is to escape with the money and become a rich man.  Indeed, Moss is so intent on this capitalist/materialist triumph that he is willing to battle a ferocious killer and jeopardize both his and his wife&#039;s lives. Thus Moss reifies happiness into money, which leads to his downfall.  You&#039;ve got the semiotics backward, Zimmerman: Moss is the materialist reifier, while Chigurh is the one delivering punishment to those who worship capital at the expense of life, love, happiness.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In arguing that somehow Llewelyn Moss is an &#8220;apostate in the temple of materialism,&#8221;  Zimmerman conveniently elides the fact that Moss steals two million dollars.  Though Moss returns to give the dying man water, his goal throughout the story is to escape with the money and become a rich man.  Indeed, Moss is so intent on this capitalist/materialist triumph that he is willing to battle a ferocious killer and jeopardize both his and his wife&#8217;s lives. Thus Moss reifies happiness into money, which leads to his downfall.  You&#8217;ve got the semiotics backward, Zimmerman: Moss is the materialist reifier, while Chigurh is the one delivering punishment to those who worship capital at the expense of life, love, happiness.</p>
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